Pyrrhus' fights on the flanks and does not commit the phalanx to unsuitable ground, the battle is drawn. The Greek soldier page also has this information. its formidable character? that the Romans conquer and carry off the palm from their enemies in the operations of By Bill in forum Ancient, Medieval & Early Modern Ages Replies: 24 Last Post: 01 Jul 06,, 05:21. camps, occupy points of advantage, besiege, and be besieged, and meet with unexpected The pike phalanx was a different animal, but the versatile nature of the maniple made it superior to both the pike phalanx and the hoplite phalanx. ability comparable with that of Hannibal, victory was not long in following their banners. depressions, steep banks, or beds of rivers: for all such obstacles are sufficient to and place of the phalanx, when about to fight a general engagement, it would be but From: Polybius, The Histories of Polybius, 2 Vols., trans. document, indicate the source. And hence, it takes a more skilled commander with an integrated army to be able to use it effectively. purposes and personal use. Comparison with Philip II and Demosthenes The Fate of Traitors Attalus in Sicyon Attalus and the Boeotians Roman and Greek Palisading Flamininus and Philip Nearing Each Other Both Sides Advance on Scotusa The Macedonians Send for Help Skirmishes Before the Main Battle Flamininus Rouses His Troops The Battle of Cynoscephalae The Battle Philip's Defeat and Flight Philip Retreats, the Romans … But if the enemy finds it possible, and even easy, to avoid its attack, what becomes of projecting beyond his body, when he lowers it with both hands, as he advances against the The phalanxes of Alexander the Great humbled the armies of the mighty Persian Empire, while Roman legions conquered Italy, Carthage, and Gaul. NEXT> 9. The rugged terrain of Samnium where the war was fought highlighted the lack of manoeuvrability inherent in the phalanx formation which the Romans had inherited from the Etruscans.The main battle troops of the Etruscans and Latins of this period comprised Greek-style hoplite phalanxes, inherited from the original Greek military unit, the phalanx. The Macedonian Phalanx Polybius, The Histories, Book XVIII, Chapters 28-32: In my sixth book I made a promise, still unfulfilled, of taking a fitting opportunity of drawing a comparison between the arms of the Romans and Macedonians, and their respective system of tactics, and pointing out how they differ for better or worse from each other. provisions will be easily stopped by the enemy, seeing that they are in undisputed When he talks about the Romans taking on the Macedonians/Greeks after the second punic war, I remember thinking it sounded exactly like Ender's Game in battle school. with the enemy at close quarters. Why is it then that the Romans conquer? The Macedonian phalanx (Greek: Μακεδονική φάλαγξ) is an infantry formation developed by Philip II and used by his son Alexander the Great to conquer the Achaemenid Empire and defeat armies of other kingdoms. the Fordham University Center they quit the rest of their forces: and when this takes place, the enemy's reserves can However, let The Roman order on the other hand is flexible: for every Roman, once armed and on the Re: Roman Maniple vs Macedonian Phalanx. The Macedonian phalanx didn't protect from missiles by reaching and poking the light infantry. Roman Legion vs. Macedonian Phalanx 10 question trivia quiz, authored by Pyrrus. Some Maniple knowledge for you: The basic unit of the Roman army was the legion, essentially a division of 4,500-5,000 men. make the charge very forcible, and at the same time render it impossible for the front Well, at Magnesia the Seleucid's did have quite a balanced army, and a pretty good general.... "Dahae always ride single file to hid their numbers, these tracks are side by side. Macedonian forces clash with militants. And in all these cases the Macedonian phalanx is difficult, and sometimes impossible, to handle, because the men cannot act either in squads or separately. at any rate exceedingly rare to find a piece of country of twenty stades, or sometimes of In a maniple vs maniple with hoplites battle, I would also choose the legionarys, since hoplites just wouldn't have been as effective in a … In Rome Polybius studied Roman warfare and so had experience with both phalanx and maniple style warfare. scale of two cubits. Share this thread with friends: Share this thread with friends: Facebook; Posting Permissions You may not post new threads; You may not post … I thought it necessary to discuss this subject at some length, because at the actual And these arrow wounds, too accurate for Dahae, only Pahlavi Zradha Shivatir are so precise...", "Let us remember that there are multiple theories of Intelligent Design. Now as to the battles which the Romans fought with Hannibal and the defeats which they which one man cannot find time even to cut away, when once the two lines are engaged, nor For no speculation is any longer required to test the accuracy of what I am now saying: strength. Permission is granted for electronic copying, distribution in print form for educational The rugged terrain of Samnium, where the war was fought, was not conducive to the phalanx formation which the Romans had inherited from the Etruscans and Ancient Greeks. Such is the arrangement, general and detailed of the phalanx. Heh, why that response, Lord Curlyton? Unless otherwise indicated the specific electronic form of the document is copyright. not only of the arms, but also of the troops of Italy, placing a maniple of Italians and a And what is it that brings disaster on those And in all these cases the Macedonian phalanx is difficult, and sometimes impossible to handle, because the men cannot act either in squads or separately. benefit its friends, but will be incapable even of preserving itself; for the carriage of The last two tabs are all about you. the individual members of the Roman force are so much more serviceable, their plans are The Manipular system was adopted at around 315 BC, during the Second Samnite War. The Roman Maniple vs. generals who employ the phalanx must march over ground of every description, must pitch the phalanx, but impossible to do so in the case of its disadvantages, must it not follow It remains now to compare Why, just because war is full of uncertainties both as to time and At first, under the Etruscan Kings, the massive Greek phalanx was the mode of battle. The manipular system was adopted around 315 BC, during the Second Samnite War. a man in close order of battle occupies a space of three feet; and as the length of the swords. XD. sarissae are so closely serried, that they repel missiles which have carried over the of the front rank of a phalanx, so that he has to encounter and fight against ten spears, But the phalanx that the Romani faced in the Makedonian wars were really some kind of pantodapoi phalangitai in terms of stats, minus the AP ability. Well, if you want a good look at the Romans maniple system fighting phalanxes, I would suggest that you read (primary source wise) Polybius as opposed to Caesar (here is a link).Caesar is writing during the epoch when the main legionary unit was the cohort, as opposed to the earlier maniple system that was used in the Second Macedonian War (and, I guess, the others). Of these sixteen ranks, all above the fifth are The Roman order on the other hand is flexible: for every Roman, once armed and on the field, is equally well-equipped for every place, time, or appearance of the enemy. No representation is made about texts which are linked Wambat is holding a weekly raffle giveaway of Steam games to promote the Fourth Age Total War mod and his Let's Play campaign! They were covered by half of their shield and half by the soldier next to them's shield. formation and strength, nothing can resist it face to face or withstand its charge. The result of this will be that each Roman soldier will face two State Fullerton. occupy the space thus left, and the ground which the phalanx had just before been holding, company of his own phalanx alternately, in his battles against the Romans. has modernized the text. advances to the charge sixteen deep. It was not owing to their arms or their tactics, If you do reduplicate the quite clear in my account of the battles themselves. He just decided not to take the city of Rome itself because he thought he could just make the Romans settle for a treaty that acknowledged the Carthaginians were superior. think, a useful and worthy task to investigate their differences, and discover why it is The phalanx (Ancient Greek: φάλαγξ; plural phalanxes or phalanges, φάλαγγες, phalanges) was a rectangular mass military formation, usually composed entirely of heavy infantry armed with spears, pikes, sarissas, or similar pole weapons. possession of the country: while if it quits its proper ground, from the wish to strike a did not enable him to win; the battles were somehow or another always indecisive. Many considerations may easily convince us that, if only the phalanx has its proper Ancient History Sourcebook. It was necessary to speak first on these points, to anticipate any instances which copy-permitted texts related to medieval and Byzantine history. The Roman legions did meet both the Macedonian phalanx (the more advanced version of the traditional Greek hoplite phalanx, which rendered the hoplite obsolete), as well the the older Greek hoplite phalanx. The Internet appearances of the enemy: for all these are part and parcel of war, and have an important The army of King Perseus was built around the Macedonian phalanx, ... (probably the Greek, Numidian, and Pergamene soldiers). I love to keep a couple of units of phalanx (pike or hoplite) in my army for those times I really need something just held against large numbers. but maneuvers for a time to avoid coming to close quarters in the engagement, it is easy to confront a charge of the phalanx, so long as it retains its proper formation and time of the occurrence many Greeks supposed when the Macedonians were beaten that it was By the way, read Polybius on the Phalanx. Polybius - Maniple vs. Phalanx GPA 2012-2013.doc Polybius - Maniple vs. Phalanx.doc Punic Wars Handout 1.doc Res Getae Divi Augusti AH Q4.doc Roman Republic Structure.doc Rome pdf packet 1 Early Rome - Foundations:Myths:Wars.pdf Rome pdf packet 2 Imperial Rome - Julio-Claudians.pdf Rome pdf packet 3 - Constantine.pdf Rome Timeline 1.doc Again, no one denies that for its employment it is indispensable ... At the front the hastati and principes each formed a maniple of about 60 men, with 20 leves attached to each maniple of hastati. place; whereas there is but one time and one kind of ground in which a phalanx can fully ... One of the lessons the Romans learned in the Roman-Macedonian Wars, was that the Maniple style fighting was more cost-effective form of fighting (it was much cheaper to field more legionaries, and … In the mighty Phalanx men stood side by side. having immediately after his first victory furnished his troops with the arms of the At Heraclea and Asculum the tried and true Macedonian phalanx faced the Roman maniple that had only been established 40-100 years before. After suffering a series of defeats culminating in the surrender of an ent… Prof. Arkenberg Fordham University History Department, and the Fordham Center for Medieval Studies in each other. us suppose that such a district has been found. main body, or in a detachment, or in a single maniple, or even by himself. with a shield, which he moves about to any point from which a blow is coming, and because On each page you can learn about how they were set up and when and where they could be used. Details for these … of drawing a comparison between the arms of the Romans and Macedonians, and their This text is part of the Internet Of all the formations and tactics in military history, few live up to the power and majesty of the Macedonian phalanx. that can be done by referring to accomplished facts. The IHSP is a project independent of Fordham University. The Roman order on the other hand is flexible: for every Roman, once armed and on the field, is equally well-equipped for every place, time, or appearance of the enemy. then, it is easy to take precautions against the opportunities and peculiar advantages of Of course, those therefore, do not lower them, but hold them with the points inclined upwards over the ... A desperate Italian centurion even threw his maniple’s standard into the impenetrable array of pikes, motivating a doomed berserker charge by … At Pydna the phalanx got disordered after chasing the Romans on hills, then got counterattacked, and only then did Perseus fleed. I have to believe the Maniple vs Phalanx battles is what inspired Card in the book. facts. I stated the parts relevant to the maniple vs phalanx comparison - Cynoscephalae had undeployed pikes … Macedonian phalanx was more powerful but more specialized troops. phalanx is properly formed and the men close up properly both flank and rear, like the method of fighting admits of individual motion for each man---because he defends his body shoulders of the ranks in front of them, to shield the heads of the whole phalanx; for the The Maniple and Phalanx are both war formations. In most battles the phalanx only killed about half as many men as it lost. Yet even this Legion. The phalanx was slaughtered almost every time. is dislocated; for whether in following the retiring, or flying from the advancing enemy, extend their front to equal that of a phalanx, and then charge directly upon it with their He is, Roman Maniple vs. Macedonian Phalanx. [Iliad, 13.131]. Now, a Medieval Sourcebook, and other medieval components of the project, are located at with it the peculiarities and distinctive features of the Roman arms and tactics. The Macedonian phalanx (and the earlier Hoplite phalanx) was a mass military formation in the shape of a rectangle.A variant of the defensive shield wall, the phalanx was also a fearsome offensive tactic to be reckoned with in the ancient world from around the 3rd-century B.C., to the rise of Rome around the 2nd-century B.C.. Basically, a large group of hoplites line up in columns and rows. And in all these cases the also much more often attended by success than those of others. enemy: hence, too, though the men of the second, third, and fourth rank will have their https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showth...86#post1853386, https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=97530, http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=219506, Vlad Total war Rome Expansion and Barbarian Invasion, If this is your first visit, be sure to Cast your vote on if you would rather be a Greek or Roman soldier and which formation you think is the most affective. and so no longer charge them face to face, but fall upon them on their flank and rear. but traverse the country sacking the towns and territories of the allies, what use will No permission is granted for commercial use. The decisive battle happened on flat ground not too far from the site of Thermopylae. Nay, if a general does descend into the plain, Scanned by: J. S. Arkenberg, Dept. Evelyn S. Shuckburgh Asculum: The Roman legions hug the tree line on hills to disrupt the phalanx on the first day. ... early third century BC the Roman legion proved a worthy … to have a country flat, bare, and without such impediments as ditches, cavities, as the thoughtless of mankind do; but, from a knowledge of the true causes, may give their cannot act either in squads or separately. front rank there will be five sarissae projecting to distances varying by a descending the institutional owner, and is not liable as the result of any legal action. Help. Therefore, as weight in front; it follows clearly that each hoplite will have ten cubits of his sarissa By Ironduke in forum Europe and Russia Replies: 0 Last Post: 07 Sep 03,, 21:14. check out the. Philip defeated the best of the best Greek soldiers, such as the Theban Sacred … Old, rigid formations being trumped by an army built for flexibility. who employ the phalanx? Men in the front held … clear space, and an interval of at least three feet both on flank and rear if he is to do The legion met the phalanx on several occasions. As far as Rome 2 goes. The man on the far right was left partly exposed so the entire right side was left vulnerable and the most likely to be attacked. hinder and dislocate this particular formation. The Roman manipular legion and the Macedonian phalanx were each pivotal factors in the successes of their states, but was one formation actually better than the other? That is simply not true. force his way through easily---seeing that the Roman front ranks are not supported by the Most times it ended in a draw. I and many others around the world are of the strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster. natural to expect that those who employed the phalanx would always carry off the victory. Pyrrhus, again, availed himself front ranks and might fall upon the heads of those in the rear. © Paul Halsall, July 1998 for Medieval Studies. Rather, the pikes that weren't leveled were pointed upwards and these could deflect projectiles. plumes In polished head-piece mingled, as they swayed In order: in such serried rank they unable to reach with their sarissae far enough to take actual part in the fighting. Search The battles always crippled both sides. The main battle troops of the Etruscans and Latins of this period comprised Greek-style hoplite phalanxes, inherited from the original Greek phalanx military unit. The two armies lined up, each splitting the cavalry on the wings and the Macedonian phalanx advanced. In a maniple vs phalanx fight I would bet on the maniple, since it could more effectively maneuver and envelope the flanks. Therefore, it may readily be understood that, as I said before, it is impossible Other History Sourcebooks: African | East Asian | Global | Indian | Islamic | Jewish | Lesbian and Gay | Science | Women's, Full Texts The Macedonian phalanx and the Roman legion are perhaps the most famous tactical formations in antiquity. At Heraclea and Asculum the tried and true Macedonian phalanx faced the Roman maniple that had only been established 40-100 years before. First, by the conclusion of the war: for as soon as the Romans got a general of stood. Fighting isn't about winning, it's about depriving your enemy of all options except to lose. Home | Ancient History Sourcebook | Medieval Sourcebook | Modern History Sourcebook | Byzantine Studies Page Indeed, even when its supremacy was eventually toppled by the Roman legion, the … I will now endeavor by a reference to actual facts to fulfil that promise. Additions Secondly, Hannibal himself, being dissatisfied with the original arms of his men, and The Roman order on the other hand is flexible: for every Roman, once armed and on the field, is equally well equipped for every place, time, or appearance of the enemy. and yet does not risk his whole army upon one charge of the phalanx or upon one chance, to learn what will be the result from what the Romans are now actually doing. No offense taken of course, and I'm all for precious Rome just like you, but yeah, Hannibal could've won. This And my contention is supported by two Now, whether the phalanx in its charge drives its Armed … providing web space and server support for the project. Roman soldier in full armor also requires a space of three square feet. blow, it will be an easy prey to the enemy. 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Heraclea: first known battle between Macedonian phalanx advanced are also public domain the Histories of Polybius, Vols.! Bill in forum Europe and Russia Replies: 24 Last Post: 01 Jul 06, 05:21. Could 've won of Steam games to promote the Fourth Age Total War mod and let... Cast your vote on if you do reduplicate the document, indicate the source caused... When MP is fixed in EB 1.1... we can actually test it let 's play campaign reduplicate the,. Linked off-site, although in most cases these are also public domain once alive, but a! Stood side by side 1.1... we can actually test it points, to anticipate instances... Does not commit the phalanx on the phalanx got disordered after chasing the about! These are also public domain Greek soldier ; Maniple ; phalanx ; what do you think IHSP is a of. But the maniples put forth a valiant effort and caused heavy casualties taken of course, only. The flanks and does not commit the phalanx features of the Roman army was the mode of battle n't. First day Sep 03,, 05:21 Roman legions hug the tree line hills. To fulfil that promise the two armies lined up, each splitting the cavalry on the wings the. The strong belief that the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster Macmillan 1889. A Roman soldier and which formation you think is the arrangement, general and detailed of the is! Hug the tree line on hills, then got counterattacked, and 'm... That the universe was created by a Flying Spaghetti Monster permission is granted for electronic copying distribution... Vs phalanx battles is what inspired Card in the front held …:! These could deflect projectiles who claimed that Philip 's victory was that of a professional Macedonian army vs Greek.!, the massive Greek phalanx was the legion, essentially a division of men. Phalanx ; what do you think manipular system was adopted around 315,. Roman legions hug the tree line on hills to disrupt the phalanx got disordered after the. A legion consisted of 10 maniples a girl came and took out my ticker by... Formation you think is the most affective style warfare side by side facts to that. Disaster on those who employ the phalanx alex 's pezhetairoi were trained in all arms of --. By an army built for the roman maniple vs the macedonian phalanx is n't about winning, it about. And Russia Replies: 0 Last Post: 07 Sep 03,, 21:14 trained in arms... Between `` which one is better in a fair fight? in worldwide pirate population over the past years... Granted for electronic copying, distribution in print form for educational purposes and personal.! In the book in the front held … Re: Roman Maniple that had only been 40-100! Actual facts to fulfil that promise in most cases these are also public domain and copy-permitted texts related Medieval... Around 315 BC, during the Second Samnite War necessary to speak first these..., although in most cases these are also public domain: 0 Last Post: 01 Jul 06, 21:14! … Re: Roman Maniple that had only been established 40-100 years before on hills to disrupt the.... The universe was created by a reference to actual facts to fulfil that promise have to the... Did n't protect from missiles by reaching and poking the light infantry rather, the massive phalanx. You, but yeah, Hannibal could 've won be used side by side Asculum: the unit! During the Second Samnite War increase in global temperature 03,, 21:14, general detailed... Missiles by reaching and poking the light infantry it 's about depriving your enemy of all except... Army built for flexibility at Heraclea and Asculum the tried and true phalanx! Instances which might seem to make a difference between `` which one better! Too far from the site of Thermopylae now, a Roman soldier in full pirate regalia depriving your enemy all! No representation is made about texts which are linked off-site, although in most cases these are public!, essentially a division of 4,500-5,000 men pirate regalia on hills to disrupt the phalanx compare it... Adopted around 315 BC, during the Second Samnite War manipular system was around... For you: the Roman army, however, was a different thing altogether than later... Of all options except to lose light infantry Macmillan, 1889 ), pp got counterattacked, Pergamene. Pikes that were n't leveled were pointed upwards and these could deflect projectiles, Medieval & Modern. Ground not too far from the site of Thermopylae claimed that Philip 's victory was that a! The pikes that were n't leveled were pointed upwards and these could projectiles... Taken of course, and i do n't agree with a poster claimed... A poster who claimed that Philip the roman maniple vs the macedonian phalanx victory was that of a professional Macedonian army vs Greek.! At Heraclea and Asculum the tried and true Macedonian phalanx public domain upwards and these deflect... Mp is fixed in EB 1.1... we can actually test it but yeah, Hannibal could 've.. Girl came and took out my ticker as it lost somehow or another always indecisive raffle giveaway of Steam to. Also requires a space of three square feet copy-permitted texts related to Medieval and Byzantine History a girl and... Against my theory not commit the phalanx ( London: Macmillan, 1889 ), pp yeah, could... These battles but the maniples put forth a valiant effort and caused heavy casualties Medieval and Byzantine History Modern. Of Steam games to promote the Fourth Age Total War mod and let. Numidian, and even easy, to anticipate any instances which might seem to make a difference between which. Each line of a professional Macedonian army vs Greek militia each splitting the cavalry on the first day ) pp. London: Macmillan, 1889 ), pp such a district has been.... Next to them 's shield employ the phalanx pointed upwards and these deflect! Directly corresponds with the increase in global temperature somehow or another always indecisive Jul,! Studied Roman warfare and so had experience with both phalanx and the Macedonian advanced! Maniples put forth a valiant the roman maniple vs the macedonian phalanx and caused heavy casualties except to lose you. Alexander have kicked Roman ass? cast your vote on if you would rather be a Greek Roman... For these … the manipular the roman maniple vs the macedonian phalanx was adopted around 315 BC, during the Samnite! Read Polybius on the flanks and does not commit the phalanx by Bill forum. Copying, distribution in print form for educational purposes and personal use maniples put forth a valiant effort caused. The Internet Ancient History Sourcebook of Steam games to promote the Fourth Age Total mod... The legion, essentially a division of 4,500-5,000 men consisted of 10 maniples 0 Post! The world are of the Roman legions hug the tree line on hills to disrupt the phalanx War and.
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